The Hidden Struggle of “Nice Guys” Nobody Talks About

01:00:00: Today we have the honor to invite

01:00:02: Frederick to our podcast.

01:00:05: Hi Frederick.

01:00:06: Hello.

01:00:07: You want to introduce

01:00:07: yourself to the audience?

01:00:09: My name is Frederick,

01:00:10: and I'm helping nice guys

01:00:12: to become conscious men.

01:00:15: So I help them from going,

01:00:16: from feeling very lonely and isolated

01:00:18: to feeling joyful and

01:00:19: connected and purposeful.

01:00:22: Wow.

01:00:23: That's the first time

01:00:24: I'm hearing like a coach

01:00:26: specializing in that.

01:00:29: And you labeled

01:00:29: yourself as a nice guy coach.

01:00:33: Like that makes me wonder,

01:00:35: like what's your definition of

01:00:37: a nice guy in the first place?

01:00:40: Yeah, so a nice guy

01:00:41: has very typical traits

01:00:44: we see in a lot of men nowadays.

01:00:46: And it's like,

01:00:49: I think the three biggest traits are,

01:00:51: he's very not assertive.

01:00:54: Like he doesn't take initiative a lot.

01:00:57: He's usually, for example,

01:01:00: when he comes home maybe,

01:01:03: and he's like his wife is at home or

01:01:05: something like that,

01:01:06: or his girlfriend,

01:01:07: he doesn't feel comfortable to like say,

01:01:10: okay, what's for

01:01:10: dinner when she's asking?

01:01:11: But he's like, oh, I don't know.

01:01:14: We do whatever you want

01:01:15: because there's a conscious patterns

01:01:17: which hold him off like he

01:01:18: feels afraid to say his opinion.

01:01:20: So he doesn't know what he wants.

01:01:21: Oh, it's like he doesn't

01:01:22: like have a big ego himself.

01:01:24: Yeah, I think actually

01:01:25: no, he has a big ego.

01:01:27: It's just like the ego.

01:01:30: It's content.

01:01:31: Doesn't allow him,

01:01:33: he has patterns, subconscious patterns,

01:01:35: which make him very

01:01:36: scared to say his opinion

01:01:38: because he learned in childhood

01:01:40: that this is not a

01:01:41: good survival strategy.

01:01:42: Basically he grew up in an environment

01:01:45: where it was not a good

01:01:46: idea to say your opinion.

01:01:48: He had to hide, he had to be small.

01:01:50: And he learned to shut down his emotions,

01:01:53: shut down what he wants,

01:01:54: shut down what he needs and not say that

01:01:56: because that's a bad strategy.

01:01:58: Look at, that's such like Asian thing.

01:02:03: Because when you were saying that,

01:02:04: I was like, oh, I can

01:02:06: relate to that as an Asian girl.

01:02:10: Growing up surrounded by

01:02:13: very harsh Chinese parents

01:02:16: and always cannot use to

01:02:18: contain my own emotions

01:02:20: and just be like a people pleaser.

01:02:23: And I should just cannot freely express

01:02:26: what I really think.

01:02:28: But you're like a white

01:02:31: guy from Western world.

01:02:35: As there are many men in

01:02:38: your country who are like that.

01:02:42: For sure.

01:02:44: You said one important thing there, you

01:02:46: said people pleaser.

01:02:47: And basically the nice guy

01:02:48: is the masculine archetype

01:02:52: of a people pleaser.

01:02:54: Women can be people pleasers,

01:02:55: men can be people pleasers,

01:02:57: but the nice guy archetype is

01:02:59: one of the men people pleaser.

01:03:01: And so a lot of these traits,

01:03:04: maybe typically in the

01:03:05: past would have said like,

01:03:06: oh yeah, women are more like that, right?

01:03:08: More agreeable, don't say the opinion,

01:03:11: like are more small,

01:03:12: like are maybe afraid

01:03:13: to share the opinion

01:03:14: that we see in a growing number of men.

01:03:18: Yeah, and especially in the West,

01:03:20: it has to do with several

01:03:21: factors, but it goes back.

01:03:24: Yeah, until even the

01:03:25: Industrial Revolution,

01:03:27: like that was the first

01:03:28: time where sons weren't going

01:03:33: on the maybe fields

01:03:34: with their fathers anymore.

01:03:36: And back then before

01:03:38: the Industrial Revolution,

01:03:40: a lot of boys grew up

01:03:41: until like maybe 12 years

01:03:43: with a mother.

01:03:44: And then they would go

01:03:45: out with their fathers,

01:03:46: with their uncles, with their brothers,

01:03:47: and they could

01:03:48: socialize like with other men.

01:03:50: But nowadays, if you think about it,

01:03:51: after Industrial Revolution,

01:03:53: all the fathers are in the factory.

01:03:55: And then afterwards, from

01:03:56: blue collar to white collar job,

01:03:58: all the fathers are in the office.

01:04:01: And you can't bring

01:04:01: your child to the office.

01:04:03: So now we grow up in a world,

01:04:05: all the boys grow up in a world

01:04:07: where they just are

01:04:08: surrounded by women, by their mom.

01:04:11: And then most of the teachers are female.

01:04:14: And yeah, basically when

01:04:16: then the dad doesn't show up

01:04:19: in his free time on the weekend,

01:04:21: isn't there to be a masculine role model,

01:04:24: then many boys learn a

01:04:26: lot of behaviors from women

01:04:28: and learn how to please women.

01:04:29: And that's where a lot

01:04:30: of these things come from.

01:04:32: Yeah, it's so interesting.

01:04:34: Like, I feel like I

01:04:35: can relate to that more

01:04:36: because I'm kind of like a nice girl.

01:04:41: Yeah, because like, maybe

01:04:44: that's like my stereotype.

01:04:46: Most of the guys I met, they're like,

01:04:49: can be very assertive.

01:04:51: And in their own

01:04:52: words, like very confident

01:04:54: because they always know what they want.

01:04:58: And they don't have any

01:05:00: concerns to just say it out loud.

01:05:05: But like you're saying like, as nice guy,

01:05:08: there's a lot of

01:05:09: things that holding you back

01:05:11: when you are trying to

01:05:12: express your feelings truly.

01:05:15: Yeah, you said some really interesting

01:05:16: things there, right?

01:05:17: Because we see the different perspective

01:05:22: from men and from women, right?

01:05:24: A lot of women would

01:05:25: agree that they say like,

01:05:27: oh, there's a lot of

01:05:28: men who are like toxic men

01:05:29: and predators and like, I have to be

01:05:31: careful all the time.

01:05:32: I have to be afraid like in the club,

01:05:34: there's constantly people

01:05:36: like guys hitting at me.

01:05:38: And then the male

01:05:39: perspective is like, oh no,

01:05:41: but like, I'm so afraid to approach even.

01:05:44: And I talked to women in a long time

01:05:46: or I'm just playing video

01:05:47: games in my mom's apartment,

01:05:50: like in my basement,

01:05:50: and I don't know how to do any of that.

01:05:52: So how does that happen?

01:05:55: And it's basically, it's a bias, right?

01:05:57: Because women only get

01:05:59: approached by these guys

01:06:01: who are not thinking about it.

01:06:03: And maybe just like, you know,

01:06:06: aren't the most

01:06:06: empathetic or the most passionate.

01:06:09: So then you only have one experience

01:06:12: with one type of guy, basically.

01:06:14: And all the other guys who never approach

01:06:16: because they're too afraid

01:06:17: that you don't get approached.

01:06:20: Yeah, it's like a selection bias.

01:06:21: A selection bias, right?

01:06:23: But there's a lot of men,

01:06:25: and I talked to a lot

01:06:25: of men who have exactly

01:06:27: the same struggles that

01:06:28: they don't wanna hurt women.

01:06:31: And that was my personal backstory

01:06:34: that I didn't wanna hurt women.

01:06:36: I didn't wanna be the toxic man, right?

01:06:38: I read it all the time in social media.

01:06:41: I'm a man, a predator,

01:06:42: I'm a sexual predator.

01:06:44: I'm a sex man, you know,

01:06:45: women feel uncomfortable.

01:06:47: Maybe you're the creep,

01:06:48: stuff like that, you know?

01:06:49: I was like, I don't wanna be like that.

01:06:51: I wanna be the good

01:06:52: guy, the nice guy, right?

01:06:54: I don't wanna be someone

01:06:55: mad at me or like hurt them.

01:06:57: But on the other hand,

01:06:59: I saw that 80% of women,

01:07:02: like I read a statistic, 80% of women

01:07:04: want to be approached by men.

01:07:06: And then I was like, okay,

01:07:07: but how do these two things go together?

01:07:10: Like I'm, because what if I approach her

01:07:13: and she's creeped out?

01:07:15: She feels hurt and she feels like,

01:07:17: I can't know before I try, right?

01:07:19: But on the other hand, I have to.

01:07:21: And that just didn't go together.

01:07:23: So that led, for me

01:07:24: personally, my twenties

01:07:25: that I didn't approach any women, really.

01:07:29: Oh, like, is there like a personal story

01:07:31: you'd like to share?

01:07:32: Like, is there like a

01:07:33: particular moments like in your life

01:07:36: where you struggled from this?

01:07:39: That made me, that made you to realize,

01:07:42: oh, I actually want

01:07:43: to approach women more

01:07:45: and not just like be like a

01:07:47: nice guy to hide my emotions.

01:07:51: Yeah, so I think one

01:07:54: thing we have to understand

01:07:56: before I share my story is

01:07:57: that nice guys don't know

01:08:00: that they hide their emotions, right?

01:08:02: They're just numb.

01:08:03: They just learned that

01:08:04: somewhere in their childhood

01:08:05: and they're not aware that,

01:08:07: oh, I'm hiding my

01:08:07: emotion right now, right?

01:08:09: But for me, in my

01:08:11: twenties, it just, you know,

01:08:13: I just wasn't feeling

01:08:15: comfortable approaching girls.

01:08:17: I didn't know how to do it,

01:08:18: but I didn't have

01:08:19: anybody to talk to about,

01:08:21: like I didn't talk with

01:08:22: friends in my friend circles.

01:08:23: We never talked about that kind of stuff.

01:08:26: I didn't talk to my dad about that.

01:08:28: He never, we never talked

01:08:29: about sexuality or like anything.

01:08:33: And then, yeah, like what's left?

01:08:35: Like porn on the

01:08:36: internet should be educated

01:08:38: about sexuality and like pick up artists

01:08:41: on the internet, right?

01:08:43: So that means like a lot of

01:08:45: the things I learned there

01:08:46: was that I have to be someone else,

01:08:49: kind of put another mask on, right?

01:08:51: What are the pickup tricks?

01:08:53: Like kind of, which

01:08:54: never resonated with me,

01:08:55: but I saw just these guys telling me,

01:08:56: you need to tell this, you

01:08:57: need to take this pickup line

01:08:59: and then you can

01:09:00: escalate and then bring her home

01:09:02: and some stuff.

01:09:03: And I was always like, but is that how

01:09:04: relationships should go?

01:09:06: Well, for me personally, it went into,

01:09:10: I was just playing, I was living my life.

01:09:14: I was studying, right?

01:09:15: But I was, apart from that, I was just

01:09:17: playing video games.

01:09:18: I was partying, I was drinking alcohol,

01:09:20: I was taking drugs.

01:09:23: And I remember someone telling me like,

01:09:27: "Oh, it's your twenties,

01:09:28: just have fun, just enjoy,

01:09:31: you know, maybe flirting a little bit

01:09:32: or maybe having a one-a-stand."

01:09:34: And I just remember like,

01:09:35: I don't know how this can be fun.

01:09:37: Like it's super stressful for me.

01:09:39: Like when I go into a situation,

01:09:41: I just, I didn't, I wasn't

01:09:42: conscious back then about that,

01:09:44: but I just felt like, oh my God,

01:09:45: I don't want to be in that situation

01:09:46: and I retreat it as fast as possible

01:09:48: and went home and watched porn, right?

01:09:52: I have one specific story

01:09:53: I can share if you want,

01:09:56: which is I had one friend,

01:09:59: she was actually one of my best friends.

01:10:01: She actually is still

01:10:02: one of my best friends,

01:10:03: but back then I was in love with her

01:10:06: for about three, three, four years.

01:10:09: And I never had the

01:10:11: courage to ask her out

01:10:14: or to say anything

01:10:15: because I was always too

01:10:16: afraid of the consequence

01:10:17: of what she's thinking about me,

01:10:19: that I lose her as a person.

01:10:20: And I saw her going through boyfriend,

01:10:23: boyfriend, boyfriend,

01:10:24: and just watch from the sideline.

01:10:26: And now talking about it in hindsight,

01:10:29: it sounds like reasonable,

01:10:31: but it doesn't hurt anymore.

01:10:34: But back then I was really devastated.

01:10:36: I was like, what can I do different?

01:10:38: I was dreaming of having

01:10:39: a family at some point,

01:10:41: but how do you have a family

01:10:42: when you're not even

01:10:43: confident to talk to,

01:10:47: not to talk to women,

01:10:48: I could talk to women,

01:10:49: but never in a romantic sense.

01:10:50: On a friendship level, no problem.

01:10:52: Okay. Yeah.

01:10:54: So you're just saying like

01:10:55: this kind of nice guy traits,

01:10:59: like only hold you

01:11:00: back when you're kind of

01:11:01: going to be in a romantic relationship.

01:11:05: In other scenarios,

01:11:08: you are not afraid of,

01:11:10: express it yourself.

01:11:13: No, I would say it's everywhere.

01:11:15: It's also like in job, for

01:11:16: example, when you're working,

01:11:19: maybe there's a people,

01:11:21: please, or maybe people

01:11:22: want to give you extra tasks.

01:11:24: You can't say no.

01:11:25: Yeah. Right?

01:11:25: That's the second

01:11:25: thing which people can say.

01:11:26: When people ask you for a

01:11:28: favor, you wouldn't choose.

01:11:29: Exactly, because it's

01:11:31: like, it feels unsafe to you.

01:11:34: It's like, oh no,

01:11:34: because people please us,

01:11:36: and nice guys are conflict avoidant.

01:11:38: Conflict avoidant, so I was

01:11:39: like, no, we can't do this.

01:11:41: So not taking initiative

01:11:42: was the first one, right?

01:11:43: The second one would

01:11:44: be conflict avoidant.

01:11:46: And then nice guys are doing everything

01:11:48: to not go into any conflict,

01:11:50: it's not saying no most of the time.

01:11:52: So not respecting your own boundaries,

01:11:56: and not communicating to

01:11:57: your wants and your needs.

01:11:59: So, and that is like in

01:12:01: any relationship, right?

01:12:02: It doesn't have to be a

01:12:03: romantic relationship,

01:12:04: we have work relationships,

01:12:06: we have relationships with friends.

01:12:08: But most of the time, in

01:12:09: all of these relationships,

01:12:11: the nice guy, the typical nice guy,

01:12:12: doesn't express himself.

01:12:16: And maybe his friend is

01:12:17: doing something he doesn't like,

01:12:20: but he doesn't say it.

01:12:22: So are there moments like we're,

01:12:25: like you were hurt,

01:12:27: particularly being a nice guy?

01:12:32: It's like, are there moments,

01:12:35: like you just like found,

01:12:39: it's so hard to say no,

01:12:41: then like you were

01:12:43: like so burdened by that.

01:12:47: Now when I reflect about it,

01:12:50: I, for sure during my last relationship,

01:12:56: which was nine years ago,

01:12:59: between when I was 21 to 23,

01:13:03: I had a relationship and I

01:13:05: wasn't feeling comfortable

01:13:07: to talk about anything.

01:13:08: I had a lot of shame.

01:13:09: I didn't know that back then, right?

01:13:10: But it led for me to

01:13:12: not talk about sexuality,

01:13:14: not talk about needs, wants, boundaries,

01:13:16: not talk about emotions

01:13:18: because I didn't even know what I feel.

01:13:21: So in that sense, it

01:13:23: hurt me a lot back then

01:13:25: because I, for example, for me,

01:13:28: when it came to sexual interactions,

01:13:29: it was always about pleasing the woman

01:13:32: because I want to make

01:13:34: sure like she's satisfied.

01:13:35: But for me personally, I

01:13:37: never really enjoyed sex.

01:13:39: I was just like, okay,

01:13:41: I'm coming really fast now.

01:13:43: Like I'm a premature ejaculation.

01:13:47: It's like just because I have so much

01:13:48: stresses of performing

01:13:50: that I can't really enjoy it,

01:13:51: but I also don't talk to her about it.

01:13:53: And she didn't bring it up.

01:13:54: And then it was just like the super

01:13:56: shallow sexual thing

01:13:59: we had for basically nearly two years.

01:14:02: And-

01:14:03: How did it impact like your relationship?

01:14:07: Like how did it impact

01:14:08: yourself at that stage?

01:14:12: I mean, I still watched porn back then.

01:14:17: I didn't know,

01:14:20: I didn't, nobody ever showed

01:14:22: me a way to get out of that.

01:14:24: Like I didn't have my

01:14:25: dad or anyone saying like,

01:14:28: yeah, there's like, actually,

01:14:29: you can both really open

01:14:30: and trusting relationships

01:14:31: when you open your heart.

01:14:32: But you did you like

01:14:33: talk about that to anything?

01:14:36: I just didn't talk about that.

01:14:36: So I think I just, I

01:14:39: knew inside of my heart

01:14:40: that I was missing an

01:14:41: experience and this isn't right.

01:14:44: And something's not

01:14:44: working, but I didn't know what.

01:14:47: And I was just

01:14:48: feeling frustrated and yeah,

01:14:51: I think lonely also in a weird sense

01:14:53: because it was in a relationship,

01:14:55: but like still I felt isolated

01:14:57: because I didn't talk to anybody also

01:14:59: outside the

01:14:59: relationship about the problems

01:15:00: inside the relationship.

01:15:03: That makes me wonder

01:15:04: like why you're still

01:15:06: in that relationship if

01:15:07: you feel lonely and isolated.

01:15:13: I mean, I didn't have

01:15:14: any other model, right?

01:15:16: I've just felt like, okay,

01:15:18: that's how it's

01:15:19: supposed to be apparently.

01:15:21: I don't know.

01:15:22: Like that's what I saw when I grew up.

01:15:25: And then, I mean, I

01:15:28: ended it at some point

01:15:30: but it's yeah, I think we

01:15:34: never trusted each other really.

01:15:35: There was never really this really open

01:15:37: and trusting

01:15:38: relationship where you can talk

01:15:39: about everything.

01:15:41: And I didn't feel anything.

01:15:42: This is a problem for many nice guys.

01:15:44: They don't feel

01:15:46: really masculine or manly.

01:15:48: Manly and they're like

01:15:49: the man in the relationship

01:15:51: because and the woman

01:15:53: then doesn't feel really safe

01:15:55: in the relationship because she's like,

01:15:56: oh, like he's not taking initiative.

01:15:58: He's not taking responsibility.

01:16:01: He can communicate.

01:16:02: So she also feels something strong

01:16:04: but maybe she also

01:16:05: doesn't know what, right?

01:16:07: So that's what I wanna teach men now

01:16:09: to able to talk about

01:16:11: these things in conversations

01:16:12: with their romantic partners.

01:16:15: So back then, like

01:16:17: what made you want to end

01:16:19: that relationship?

01:16:21: Like is there like a

01:16:22: moment where you realized

01:16:24: I cannot being like a nice,

01:16:27: simply like being a nice guy

01:16:29: and live like this anymore?

01:16:31: That's a very good question.

01:16:32: I haven't reflected

01:16:33: upon that yet actually.

01:16:35: So, but it was really the

01:16:37: fact that I couldn't be myself.

01:16:39: I felt like everything

01:16:40: I did, she picked on me.

01:16:42: So back then I blamed her for it.

01:16:44: But now I know that I just

01:16:46: never said what I wanted,

01:16:47: that I never said what I needed.

01:16:49: And she's not a mind reader, right?

01:16:51: Yeah.

01:16:51: So I created my own suffering

01:16:54: in that sense because I

01:16:55: wasn't feeling comfortable

01:16:56: to communicate about all these things.

01:16:58: I felt like she's just being me to me.

01:17:00: Basically I compared me

01:17:02: being by myself felt better

01:17:05: than me being with her.

01:17:07: At some point it

01:17:07: became too much suffering

01:17:09: that I said like, no, I can do this.

01:17:10: I'm ready to move out.

01:17:12: We were living together and I just,

01:17:14: I don't know what to do.

01:17:17: So it's like, at the end,

01:17:19: like your conclusion is that

01:17:20: like being alone is like more comfortable

01:17:23: than staying with her.

01:17:25: Yeah.

01:17:25: It's like at some point

01:17:27: like being a people pleaser,

01:17:29: you feel, you can

01:17:30: feel like very exhausted

01:17:32: because you're constantly pleasing others

01:17:35: and neglecting your own needs.

01:17:38: Yeah, it goes both ways as I said,

01:17:40: like she's also feeling not like them

01:17:42: because she doesn't, like your partner

01:17:44: when you're a nice kid,

01:17:45: she doesn't get to

01:17:46: know you really, right?

01:17:47: She gets to know a facade of you,

01:17:49: like a mask you're

01:17:50: wearing, like a performance.

01:17:55: Like when did you realize it's like a

01:17:56: mask you're wearing?

01:18:00: Specifically,

01:18:03: that was, I was 30

01:18:05: and I was living in

01:18:06: Berlin and just moved in

01:18:08: and I just started this business coaching

01:18:10: and one of the coaches there

01:18:12: who was also doing the coaching,

01:18:14: she told me, oh, you have a lot of people

01:18:16: pleasing tendencies.

01:18:17: She saw that apparently.

01:18:19: Mm-hmm. I was like, oh, what does it mean?

01:18:20: Okay, and then I started to Google

01:18:22: and I stumbled over the theory of,

01:18:25: it's like a little bit

01:18:25: more spiritual theory

01:18:26: about feminine energy, masculine energy

01:18:29: and how we all have these both energies

01:18:31: and that people pleases nice

01:18:32: because of a lot like

01:18:33: unbalanced feminine energy

01:18:34: being like, meaning being more passive,

01:18:37: more not taking initiative, right?

01:18:42: The things we're talking about.

01:18:44: And I was sitting at home

01:18:46: and was like grinding away

01:18:48: trying to build a business,

01:18:49: trying to finally feel worth

01:18:51: to be with a woman

01:18:53: because that was back

01:18:53: then what I was doing.

01:18:54: It was like, oh, maybe I find a way

01:18:55: when I have that business,

01:18:57: when I finally am strong enough,

01:18:59: when I started working

01:19:01: out and stuff like that.

01:19:02: And this obviously not bad, right?

01:19:04: But I only did that.

01:19:06: I left my apartment every

01:19:07: third day to go grocery shopping.

01:19:11: So I pushed a lot out of, yeah,

01:19:14: trying to compensate

01:19:15: for this hole within me.

01:19:18: And that moment I really realized

01:19:22: that if I want to have a family,

01:19:24: I need to have a wife.

01:19:26: I need to have, if I want to have a wife,

01:19:29: I need to have a girlfriend

01:19:30: and if I want to have a girlfriend,

01:19:31: I need to start dating.

01:19:33: I never went on a date before I was 30.

01:19:35: And then I first,

01:19:39: that was the first time of my life

01:19:40: that I started to become

01:19:41: conscious of my own patterns

01:19:43: that I was deeply afraid of having sex.

01:19:48: Because it meant so much stress for me.

01:19:50: So that I had sexual shame

01:19:52: because my parents

01:19:53: never talked to me about it.

01:19:54: I never talked to anybody about it.

01:19:56: I only watched porn.

01:19:59: But like you're so comfortable,

01:20:02: so comfortable talking about that,

01:20:04: like in front of the camera here.

01:20:06: I'm so amazed by how much you changed.

01:20:09: Yeah, yeah, that's true.

01:20:11: I did like 180 degrees.

01:20:13: I started coaching back then

01:20:16: and was into the Tantra space.

01:20:19: It was called the Tantric Man Experience.

01:20:22: And Tantra, I'm aware

01:20:23: that especially in the West,

01:20:24: it's like a weird,

01:20:26: like people are like, what is that?

01:20:27: Isn't it like just group orgies

01:20:30: with like under like spiritual like name?

01:20:34: But it's really, I was skeptical at first

01:20:37: and was like, I don't know what that is.

01:20:38: It's weird.

01:20:40: But it really showed me a beautiful way

01:20:42: to be more conscious.

01:20:45: Yeah, look inside.

01:20:46: I started to see, okay, how do I feel?

01:20:50: I remember the first time I went into

01:20:51: like a men's circle,

01:20:53: it was part of the coaching.

01:20:54: I was like, how do we

01:20:55: feel mentally, physically,

01:20:56: emotionally, these things.

01:20:58: And in the beginning of the circle,

01:21:00: and I was like, I

01:21:01: don't know, good and bad.

01:21:02: Like those were my two

01:21:03: answers for how do you feel?

01:21:04: And I realized I never in my life

01:21:06: could like answer this question.

01:21:09: So then we had this

01:21:09: like circle of emotions

01:21:12: where it's like fear and joy and anger

01:21:14: and like base emotions.

01:21:15: I slowly get to know my

01:21:17: emotions and how to name them.

01:21:19: And then it was really

01:21:20: amazing journey to get there.

01:21:23: And then the sexual shame and everything,

01:21:27: I started to work on with

01:21:29: a sexological body worker,

01:21:30: actually.

01:21:31: So it was like a professional woman

01:21:34: and she was kind of

01:21:36: like a coaching format.

01:21:38: It was with like getting touched

01:21:39: and like I told her

01:21:41: how I wanna be touched.

01:21:42: She had like gloves on

01:21:43: and was stressed, right?

01:21:44: It was not about me getting

01:21:45: satisfied or anything, right?

01:21:47: Not like going to a massage parlor or

01:21:49: something like that.

01:21:50: But it was really about,

01:21:52: and it was the first

01:21:53: time maybe in my life

01:21:55: where I could relax

01:21:56: and focus on my own body

01:21:58: and my own sexual

01:22:00: energy and just close my eyes

01:22:02: and tell her how to touch

01:22:03: me and see how that feels

01:22:05: and what comes up within

01:22:06: me, what kind of fears,

01:22:07: what kind of what part

01:22:08: of my body is tensing up.

01:22:10: And that was a really good exploration.

01:22:13: I felt really good in the beginning

01:22:14: because I felt like, wow,

01:22:15: I finally discovered that part of myself

01:22:17: where I was always

01:22:18: focused on the other person

01:22:20: in a sexual situation and I could never,

01:22:22: I didn't even know what I want

01:22:24: because I was so

01:22:25: focused outside of myself.

01:22:27: Yeah, it's so interesting.

01:22:29: So interesting that like the moment

01:22:32: you finally start to be self-aware

01:22:34: was the moment when

01:22:37: you were told by a woman

01:22:38: that like you have people either.

01:22:41: I guess like you must be very open-minded

01:22:43: to start looking inside of yourself.

01:22:47: But like I would

01:22:48: assume that if it's like,

01:22:51: not a nice guy, he

01:22:53: wouldn't take that seriously.

01:22:55: Yeah, he would think, oh, I'm not that,

01:22:58: then he like would

01:22:59: stop thinking about that.

01:23:02: But like you took her words

01:23:04: and then you really started like this

01:23:08: like self-exploration journey,

01:23:10: like both mentally

01:23:11: and physically, I guess.

01:23:13: Yeah, I think the critical,

01:23:18: the one point which is important to

01:23:20: understand for everyone,

01:23:22: there comes this moment

01:23:23: where you're just sick of it.

01:23:26: You're just like, fuck, I

01:23:27: don't want this anymore.

01:23:28: Like I was looking at my life, right?

01:23:30: I was like, I'm grinding away at home.

01:23:32: I don't see a finish line.

01:23:33: I'm leaving my apartment every third day.

01:23:35: I'm not feeling comfortable dating.

01:23:38: I'm already 30, you

01:23:39: need to change something.

01:23:40: I don't see this changing.

01:23:43: So that was kind of

01:23:44: like the background also

01:23:45: where I was like,

01:23:46: something has to be different.

01:23:48: Like I just, until now I

01:23:50: just did the same things

01:23:51: and it led to the same result.

01:23:52: But okay, I'm open for new solutions.

01:23:55: And I think this opening

01:23:57: the lens for other things,

01:23:59: which maybe even if I would

01:24:01: have stumbled over them before,

01:24:03: I wouldn't have done them as you said,

01:24:05: because usually you need

01:24:06: this one point in your life.

01:24:08: Whereas you're like, oh

01:24:09: fuck, I don't want anymore.

01:24:11: Okay, wow.

01:24:13: Okay, you came to a point where like,

01:24:16: you didn't want to be

01:24:18: the old self yourself.

01:24:20: You want to invent a new you.

01:24:23: Then what would give

01:24:24: you courage to do that?

01:24:27: To just find a girlfriend, start dating.

01:24:32: Like what was your first

01:24:33: time to achieve that back then?

01:24:36: The first steps was

01:24:39: actually finding this coaching

01:24:41: where there was the

01:24:42: first block I stumbled over.

01:24:43: There was a group coaching

01:24:45: and it was men's circles.

01:24:47: So I don't know who knows

01:24:49: men's circles from your audience,

01:24:51: but it's basically men coming together.

01:24:53: So for a group?

01:24:55: Yeah, exactly.

01:24:55: It's like anonymous alcoholics just for

01:24:58: men for everyday life.

01:25:00: To talk about these things

01:25:01: I never talked about, right?

01:25:02: For a particular relationship maybe,

01:25:04: about personal problems with addiction,

01:25:06: with porn addiction, right?

01:25:08: I watched a lot of porn.

01:25:09: And it was very nice to first of all see

01:25:12: that I'm accepted there,

01:25:13: but then also that there are

01:25:15: other people who are the same as me.

01:25:17: And also that was the

01:25:19: most funniest thing ever.

01:25:20: I remember one circle in Berlin where

01:25:22: there was this like,

01:25:23: big dude, like really

01:25:25: big, full of tattoos

01:25:27: with like a big beard, you

01:25:28: know, like a biker or some shit

01:25:30: that he's talking about his emotions

01:25:32: that this like the cutest teddy bear.

01:25:33: And you're like, what?

01:25:36: When I see them on the

01:25:37: street, I'm like so afraid of them.

01:25:38: I'm kind of like intimidated

01:25:39: by this like outer appearance.

01:25:41: But it was amazing to see what kind of

01:25:43: men go to these events.

01:25:46: Yeah, it's kind of fascinating as well.

01:25:48: It's just, as like Asian women,

01:25:51: I cannot make experience about men.

01:25:53: It's like they don't,

01:25:55: they're not used to feeling

01:25:58: their emotions like yourself.

01:26:00: They're not like used to

01:26:03: like revealing their

01:26:06: emotions to others either.

01:26:09: Yeah, it's like, like, I guess most of

01:26:12: Asians are like this.

01:26:14: But like my experience

01:26:15: is that like it takes time

01:26:17: for you to actually just

01:26:22: to start to feel everything

01:26:24: inside.

01:26:25: But like you need to have a strong

01:26:27: motivation to do that.

01:26:29: For you, it's like, I need to change.

01:26:32: Yeah, for me, it was like,

01:26:36: cause I cannot feel kind of stressed

01:26:40: and my body kind of like reflects that

01:26:43: but without me knowing what's wrong.

01:26:45: Yeah, I guess like

01:26:46: each person is different

01:26:48: but there must be something

01:26:49: that triggers them to change.

01:26:51: Exactly, some trigger

01:26:52: to have the strength

01:26:55: to go into this transformation,

01:26:57: this personal transformation, right?

01:26:59: Yeah, and your first step is good.

01:27:03: It kind of like created

01:27:05: the supportive environment

01:27:07: for you to be comfortable

01:27:09: sharing your own experiences

01:27:12: and to find, oh, I'm not alone.

01:27:15: Exactly. There are others

01:27:16: who are like me.

01:27:18: I think this is the best

01:27:19: way to approach any journey,

01:27:22: basically, because there was this

01:27:25: experiment with rats

01:27:27: where they tested how addiction worked.

01:27:31: And they had this one

01:27:32: rat by itself in a cage

01:27:36: and they gave it like the

01:27:37: choice between normal water

01:27:38: and like heroin infused water.

01:27:41: And when I went to like pretty far,

01:27:43: it got addicted to the heroin water.

01:27:45: But then they repeated the experiment

01:27:48: with a way bigger cage

01:27:49: and there were a lot of rats in the cage

01:27:51: and they had the choice again,

01:27:53: but only a tiny percentage of these rats

01:27:56: got addicted to the heroin water.

01:27:58: So most of the rats

01:27:59: living a healthy, happy life

01:28:01: with the other rats not being isolated

01:28:03: and feeling good about themselves,

01:28:04: they didn't go down that

01:28:05: route of the heroin water.

01:28:07: They were happy, like

01:28:07: they didn't need that.

01:28:09: So it was, yeah, it's

01:28:11: really interesting to see

01:28:12: and it leads to the conclusion

01:28:14: that the more isolated we are,

01:28:16: the more we search for these

01:28:17: experiences like drugs, porn,

01:28:20: gambling, social media, gaming, right?

01:28:22: All the short term dopamine things

01:28:24: which are just

01:28:25: distracting and numbing us.

01:28:27: So we don't have to feel the misery

01:28:29: we're feeling in that moment.

01:28:30: Oh, that's so true.

01:28:32: I think we are touching

01:28:32: upon like something deeper

01:28:34: about like addiction.

01:28:36: It's because we cannot

01:28:38: get what we really desire.

01:28:41: We just go for some

01:28:42: like easy alternatives.

01:28:47: And most humans are so afraid of,

01:28:51: you know, there's a saying I really like,

01:28:53: "Everything you desire lies

01:28:56: on the other side of fear."

01:28:58: So most things we desire, we're afraid of

01:29:02: maybe failing going there,

01:29:04: afraid in a romantic

01:29:05: context for men especially

01:29:07: would be like being

01:29:08: afraid of rejection, right?

01:29:10: Also in business

01:29:10: context, you get rejected.

01:29:12: Men and women doesn't matter.

01:29:13: It's like a very masculine practice

01:29:14: of like I'm reaching out to people.

01:29:16: Ooh, what?

01:29:17: No response, no positive feedback.

01:29:20: Exactly.

01:29:21: And that's scary, right?

01:29:24: That's scary.

01:29:25: So beating that fear kind of like

01:29:27: or being able to feel the fear

01:29:31: and sitting with the fear

01:29:32: and being okay to be

01:29:33: afraid and still doing it,

01:29:36: that's what I wanna teach men

01:29:37: because I don't believe

01:29:38: that men are never scared

01:29:41: or like humans in

01:29:42: general are never scared.

01:29:43: That's not how it works.

01:29:45: Like the most courageous

01:29:46: person is the person who feels

01:29:48: the most fear and still does it, right?

01:29:52: So yeah.

01:29:53: Were you like this before?

01:29:57: Like you've like, you

01:29:58: cannot like reach the point

01:30:00: where you can like feel you're afraid

01:30:04: to reach out to women

01:30:06: and sit comfortably,

01:30:09: not comfortably, like

01:30:10: sit with that fear or wow

01:30:12: and then cannot pick up like the courage.

01:30:17: Yeah, I remember going on my first date.

01:30:21: I was in Berlin and I

01:30:24: wasn't during that time

01:30:25: in the coaching, right?

01:30:26: So we had the weekly men

01:30:27: circles and stuff like that.

01:30:29: And I was already more aware

01:30:31: of what I was feeling in that moment.

01:30:33: And I remember I

01:30:35: texted with her a little bit

01:30:38: and then I invited her

01:30:39: to go to that one bar.

01:30:41: And at that moment I tried to be like,

01:30:42: okay, what can I do

01:30:43: different than usually?

01:30:45: So being more in my masculine energy,

01:30:47: means like maybe being

01:30:48: more like saying like,

01:30:51: okay, let's do you wanna meet there?

01:30:53: Or like, let's meet there.

01:30:54: Be more assertive.

01:30:55: More assertive, more

01:30:56: like initiative, right?

01:30:57: We were talking about that.

01:30:58: Usually I would have never done that.

01:31:00: So I asked her out.

01:31:02: She said, yes.

01:31:03: I was like, oh my

01:31:04: God, now it's happening.

01:31:05: Like, no, I actually have to actually go.

01:31:09: And one thing which

01:31:09: calmed me down a little bit

01:31:10: was that she was actually

01:31:11: 10 years younger than me.

01:31:13: So she was 20 and I was 30.

01:31:15: And I was like, she's

01:31:16: probably more scared of me

01:31:18: than I'm afraid, you know?

01:31:20: But I went there and I

01:31:21: remember half an hour

01:31:22: and the Trump in Berlin, I

01:31:26: was just like standing there

01:31:27: and I was just like,

01:31:28: (breathing heavily)

01:31:29: I was breathing, my heart was beating.

01:31:33: Like, I was so scared to go on this date

01:31:37: for whatever reason, right?

01:31:39: It's not a logical decision.

01:31:40: It's like the nervous

01:31:41: system which is overreacting

01:31:42: because it's like, oh my God, this is a

01:31:44: dangerous situation.

01:31:45: We need to get out of

01:31:45: here as fast as possible.

01:31:46: You were now used to

01:31:47: that situation before.

01:31:50: And it happened several times to me.

01:31:53: Another time when I

01:31:53: wanted to approach a woman

01:31:55: in like just public space.

01:31:58: She was working at this

01:31:59: one, the Strawberry Stand.

01:32:01: And I saw her and I

01:32:02: actually saw her the third time.

01:32:04: And I was like, okay, this

01:32:05: would be my first approach.

01:32:06: Like, I don't know, I felt supported.

01:32:08: I already talked to people about it.

01:32:10: But I was like, I just wanna go there.

01:32:12: But yeah, I felt a lot of fear, right?

01:32:15: I went there, I did the

01:32:17: most stupid pickup line ever.

01:32:19: I was like-- What was that?

01:32:21: She was, so first of

01:32:23: all, I approached her.

01:32:24: And in that moment, she just turned away

01:32:26: and unraveled some, suddenly,

01:32:27: she's like, oh fuck,

01:32:28: turn around, turn around.

01:32:29: I feel like I'm a

01:32:29: stupid idiot standing here,

01:32:30: even though I wasn't

01:32:32: right, I was just waiting.

01:32:33: And she turned around

01:32:34: to me and I was like,

01:32:36: hey, you sell strawberries, right?

01:32:39: And there was only strawberries there.

01:32:41: And she was like, yeah.

01:32:42: Yes. All right.

01:32:44: But then she said,

01:32:45: luckily enough, she said,

01:32:46: I'm just doing this between

01:32:47: my travels and my studies.

01:32:49: I was like, yes, something I can ask.

01:32:50: Oh, what do you study?

01:32:50: What do you do? Hi, hi.

01:32:52: But the whole time,

01:32:53: and I don't know how much time passed,

01:32:55: but it was like in a fever dream.

01:32:57: I was like, just, I felt

01:32:58: like I'm outside of my body.

01:33:00: I was just like

01:33:01: talking about weird stuff.

01:33:03: I don't remember anything anymore.

01:33:04: And then I was just

01:33:05: like, it's just for practice,

01:33:07: whatever happening, just

01:33:08: ask her for her number.

01:33:09: Like just to have that hook,

01:33:11: like, you know, just take it off the box.

01:33:13: Don't be a creep, just ask her nicely.

01:33:15: And if she says no, just go away.

01:33:16: If I ask her, she says, oh, I'm dating

01:33:18: someone at the moment,

01:33:19: not sure where it goes.

01:33:19: I'm like, okay, cool, yeah,

01:33:21: thanks for letting me know.

01:33:22: Like have a nice day, go away, right?

01:33:24: And then just going away,

01:33:27: I felt really good about myself,

01:33:28: but also I was looking down

01:33:29: my hand and I was shaking.

01:33:31: And I was shaking.

01:33:32: And I remember this feeling,

01:33:34: the same thing only happened

01:33:36: to me like three years before

01:33:38: when I did a skydive.

01:33:40: So for my nervous system,

01:33:43: approaching a woman was

01:33:44: from a stress situation,

01:33:47: the same level of stress,

01:33:49: then jumping 2000

01:33:50: meters out of her plane.

01:33:51: Like, you know, so that's not large,

01:33:54: you can't explain that logically.

01:33:55: So when people are like,

01:33:56: what is so hard about it?

01:33:57: It's like, it's not like,

01:33:58: it's just the fear within myself.

01:34:01: It's very subjective.

01:34:02: But many guys have that level of fear

01:34:04: because they build up

01:34:05: so many expectations

01:34:06: and fears around themselves.

01:34:08: And it's really hard to

01:34:09: overcome that first step,

01:34:10: but then it gets easier.

01:34:11: And it's really the best part about,

01:34:14: and I really want to stress that fact.

01:34:16: I went home, my roommate opened the door,

01:34:20: and I was like, I just

01:34:21: approached this girl.

01:34:22: And I got rejected, but it didn't matter

01:34:23: because I gave him a high five.

01:34:25: He gave me a high five.

01:34:26: And we kind of turned

01:34:27: this whole thing around

01:34:28: in the beginning of the year.

01:34:29: We said, we make a

01:34:29: rejection Google Drive,

01:34:31: like Google Docs thingy,

01:34:32: but we just put like every

01:34:33: time someone gets a rejection,

01:34:35: we get a point to kind

01:34:36: of like reframe it for us

01:34:37: as a positive thing

01:34:38: because we took action

01:34:40: instead of being focused on the outcome.

01:34:43: Wow, that's such a good kind of like

01:34:46: positive feedback system you have to do

01:34:49: back then for yourself.

01:34:50: Yeah, it helped me a lot actually.

01:34:53: Yeah, like looking back to that point,

01:35:00: would you say like

01:35:00: receiving positive feedback

01:35:04: cannot help to keep you like engaged,

01:35:08: like in trying to approach a girl?

01:35:13: I think what helped me the most

01:35:17: was the reassurance from the others,

01:35:20: I'm not a creep, that I'm

01:35:22: actually a decent human,

01:35:23: and that my approach of how

01:35:25: I wanna do it is not toxic.

01:35:28: And in case she like

01:35:31: throws like water in my face

01:35:33: and leaves me standing and goes away,

01:35:35: or like, you know, it

01:35:36: gets really mad at me,

01:35:37: and that's on her and her own trauma,

01:35:39: because that was the

01:35:40: ultimate worst case scenario.

01:35:42: I was playing on

01:35:44: repeat in my head, right?

01:35:45: That she's getting super mad at me,

01:35:47: and I'm just like, fuck,

01:35:49: I didn't wanna do this.

01:35:50: Like did that ever happen?

01:35:52: Never happened to me,

01:35:53: it never happened to me,

01:35:54: but to have the

01:35:55: reassurance from the other guys

01:35:56: to say like, no, it's you're doing,

01:35:58: whatever you're doing

01:35:59: right now, it's okay.

01:36:01: Because when I was by myself,

01:36:03: I always had this case

01:36:05: scenario going in my head,

01:36:06: and I had nobody like

01:36:07: kind of saying like,

01:36:08: that's not happening, look at the facts.

01:36:11: Who are you, how are you approaching?

01:36:13: You're not going

01:36:14: there and clapping her ass

01:36:15: and like say, hey, girls,

01:36:18: you wanna come over tonight?

01:36:20: Like, I don't know,

01:36:21: you know, like whatever.

01:36:22: That would be a very

01:36:23: disrespectful way, right?

01:36:25: Going there, communicating what I want,

01:36:27: like saying, hey, I would want this,

01:36:29: like what do you want?

01:36:30: You know, and then finding--

01:36:30: Yeah, let me feel like--

01:36:32: Your boundaries.

01:36:32: It's actually like a very respectful man.

01:36:37: Yeah, that reminded me of this thing,

01:36:39: wherever your attention

01:36:41: goes, your energy goes.

01:36:43: Yes.

01:36:44: It's like if you

01:36:45: focus on thinking of like,

01:36:47: all the bad consequences,

01:36:51: like you're gonna feel like

01:36:52: very afraid of doing things.

01:36:54: Exactly.

01:36:55: They will all, like they

01:36:56: will just hold you back

01:36:58: even more.

01:37:00: But like if you like,

01:37:01: revive your like nerve

01:37:03: system to like focus on thinking

01:37:05: about like the positive side of things,

01:37:08: like you might be able to take the

01:37:10: initiative to do that.

01:37:13: Exactly.

01:37:13: Yeah, it's very

01:37:14: fascinating like how you like

01:37:16: just like revive your

01:37:18: nerve system to think

01:37:20: like the whole thing in a

01:37:21: completely different way.

01:37:23: It's not easy at all.

01:37:25: It's not, yeah.

01:37:27: It takes, I think the

01:37:28: beginning is the hardest.

01:37:30: Because then when you had

01:37:31: the first one, two experiences,

01:37:32: you're like, oh, that's also an

01:37:34: alternative outcome.

01:37:36: It's not only the,

01:37:37: she's like putting the

01:37:38: water glass in my face

01:37:39: and goes away.

01:37:40: Oh, that's also sometimes I,

01:37:42: They say yes.

01:37:42: All the dating story or like maybe yes.

01:37:44: But even like just

01:37:45: having a no, which is okay.

01:37:47: And I'm feeling okay with it.

01:37:48: And I didn't hurt her.

01:37:49: That was enough for me

01:37:50: as a first experience.

01:37:51: To know that I didn't

01:37:53: hurt her in the process

01:37:54: of reaching out to her

01:37:55: because that was my biggest fear, right?

01:37:57: Oh, okay.

01:37:58: And then I was like, oh, she's not think,

01:38:00: she doesn't think I'm the creep.

01:38:01: She doesn't think I'm the, I'm a weirdo

01:38:03: or she's not feeling harassed by me.

01:38:07: Okay, then I can do it again.

01:38:08: So just by taking the initiative,

01:38:11: you finally got the

01:38:12: chance to kind of validate

01:38:14: what your thoughts like in reality.

01:38:16: And so like, oh, this is not true.

01:38:19: Exactly.

01:38:20: Then you can change it.

01:38:22: Exactly because of good evidence, right?

01:38:23: Yeah.

01:38:24: Like when we have

01:38:25: limiting beliefs about ourselves,

01:38:26: about the world, like

01:38:28: where do beliefs come from?

01:38:29: It's like either we heard them somewhere,

01:38:32: maybe we learned it in the past.

01:38:34: Yeah. Our brain rewinds

01:38:36: these stories from the past

01:38:38: and pretends it could

01:38:39: happen in the future.

01:38:41: But there's so many different

01:38:42: opportunities that, you know.

01:38:45: So it's really finding

01:38:47: the evidence for yourself

01:38:50: that it's not like that.

01:38:53: So really trying to, yeah, reframe it.

01:38:56: Maybe you're a scientist,

01:38:57: maybe that helped me sometimes

01:38:58: to see like, oh, I'm a scientist.

01:39:00: I'm going on that date

01:39:01: and I try to observe it from the outside.

01:39:03: How does that happen?

01:39:04: But it's very hard to,

01:39:07: I also started with

01:39:07: meditation stuff like that back then

01:39:09: because it's very like

01:39:10: logically now we can talk about it

01:39:11: and just reframe and

01:39:12: just like do this and that

01:39:14: and just like think about, it's like,

01:39:15: but we're still thinking.

01:39:17: Thing is like, what's

01:39:17: really happening is that, right?

01:39:20: Panic attacks and whatever.

01:39:20: Yeah, yeah.

01:39:21: And the nervous system.

01:39:22: You cannot really control

01:39:23: yourself at that moment.

01:39:24: You can't outthink

01:39:25: your panic attack, right?

01:39:27: So I think this is where

01:39:28: mindfulness and meditation

01:39:29: and stuff like that came,

01:39:31: comes in the learning

01:39:32: to be less reactive,

01:39:34: learning to observe yourself,

01:39:35: learning to even observe yourself

01:39:38: when you get that panic.

01:39:40: It's still there, but

01:39:42: you can kind of manage it

01:39:44: because you're not, you aren't the panic.

01:39:47: You're on the panic and

01:39:48: just like reacting to it

01:39:49: and like, oh, now I run away.

01:39:51: You know, watch yourself, observe

01:39:53: yourself from the outside.

01:39:54: I was like, oh, I'm

01:39:55: very anxious right now.

01:39:57: Is that okay?

01:39:58: Can I be anxious?

01:39:59: Can I act from a higher consciousness?

01:40:01: Can I make a conscious

01:40:02: decision that I want to stay here,

01:40:04: even though I feel panic?

01:40:06: And that's the thing we need to learn

01:40:09: to then take action, to

01:40:10: then gain new evidence,

01:40:12: to then rewire the nervous system.

01:40:14: Wow.

01:40:16: What you did was amazing.

01:40:18: I want to give you applause for that.

01:40:21: So just to briefly

01:40:23: recap what you just said,

01:40:25: like so first step like you did

01:40:27: was to feel your feelings.

01:40:30: Yes. Yeah.

01:40:31: And to be self-aware that

01:40:33: like you were actually afraid

01:40:35: of taking that initiative,

01:40:37: especially when like asking girls out.

01:40:41: And second thing you did

01:40:42: was to maybe to realize

01:40:45: like what thoughts you

01:40:47: had that could lead you

01:40:49: to be afraid of such things.

01:40:52: Yeah, yeah. And realize

01:40:53: there might be other

01:40:54: possibilities to think

01:40:57: it differently.

01:40:59: And then after receiving some

01:41:01: of like the positive feedbacks

01:41:03: from like other people and from the

01:41:06: actual evidence of you

01:41:09: validating that like

01:41:11: when you approach them,

01:41:13: then you cannot like, no, okay,

01:41:15: they're just my fantasies, now choose.

01:41:21: And gradually you

01:41:23: cannot like change yourself

01:41:25: or like I guess like

01:41:27: you're still a nice guy

01:41:28: but like now you're a nice guy coach.

01:41:32: Yeah, I feel like it never,

01:41:34: I don't know if it ever

01:41:35: really completely goes away,

01:41:38: but I can control it.

01:41:41: Like I know like I'm very

01:41:42: much aware of my patterns

01:41:44: and I know when something's coming up,

01:41:45: I can feel it and let my,

01:41:48: that's something a child worry,

01:41:49: but I can say like,

01:41:50: oh, like this part of me

01:41:52: is very afraid of it

01:41:53: right now, but it's not me.

01:41:55: This is part of me, can I still do it?

01:41:57: Okay, and that led me

01:41:58: this year, for example,

01:42:00: to do a public speech.

01:42:02: And I talked about porn addiction in

01:42:03: front of like 50 people

01:42:05: and uploaded it on the internet.

01:42:07: Or I just recently got into my first

01:42:10: relationship since I--

01:42:12: Wow, congrats.

01:42:14: (both laughing)

01:42:14: So I utilize all the skills and learnings

01:42:18: and like just not from a

01:42:20: right pickup artist perspective,

01:42:22: from an authentic

01:42:23: perspective, from a what do I want?

01:42:25: What do I need?

01:42:26: What are my boundaries?

01:42:27: How do I feel?

01:42:28: And then asking her the

01:42:29: same, what do you want?

01:42:30: What do you need?

01:42:31: What are your boundaries?

01:42:32: That's how you're like communicate.

01:42:34: Like it's a bilateral place.

01:42:37: So forth and back, right?

01:42:38: And then we can see if we come together.

01:42:41: Okay, now I wonder like,

01:42:43: what made you to want

01:42:46: to be a nice guy coach?

01:42:48: When did you feel like it's,

01:42:50: I want to do this, it's

01:42:52: kind of like a mission

01:42:54: to help other nice guys.

01:42:57: It really started earlier this year.

01:43:04: Like last year I was

01:43:05: doing podcast production

01:43:06: and was more in media, but

01:43:08: I was just frustrated by it.

01:43:10: I didn't know what was missing.

01:43:13: And then I had the idea of coaching in

01:43:14: the back of my head,

01:43:15: but the first time in my life,

01:43:17: it wasn't too reactive to life, right?

01:43:19: Because I started to do much work.

01:43:21: So in the past I would

01:43:22: start the next project

01:43:23: because I'm a grownup and I

01:43:24: need to do something, right?

01:43:25: I can't just not do something.

01:43:28: Can have like a way to

01:43:30: not take initiative as well.

01:43:33: Yeah, or like being

01:43:34: too fear driven of like,

01:43:38: I need to find a thing

01:43:39: finally to be whatever,

01:43:41: like to do someone to

01:43:42: have something like--

01:43:43: To go back to your safe space.

01:43:45: Yeah, exactly.

01:43:46: And then, yeah, so this

01:43:47: time I gave myself time

01:43:50: until I find something which

01:43:51: feels like a fuck yes, you know?

01:43:55: And that's not like, oh, I

01:43:56: don't have any other options,

01:43:57: right?

01:43:58: So yeah, I was in Bali in February

01:44:01: and I attended a workshop at

01:44:03: this cafe called Cafe Coach.

01:44:05: And there was this one

01:44:05: transformation coach.

01:44:07: And basically that was

01:44:09: when I made the decision

01:44:10: because we did this guided meditation

01:44:13: and it was a really cool visualization.

01:44:15: And I was like, I'm

01:44:16: gonna give it a try, yeah.

01:44:20: Congrats on finding your missions.

01:44:23: Thank you.

01:44:25: So at that moment, like,

01:44:28: did you feel

01:44:28: something differently inside?

01:44:31: They're like, yes, this

01:44:32: is the things I want to do.

01:44:37: I just--

01:44:38: And how would they are

01:44:38: like different from like the,

01:44:41: the feeling of like being

01:44:44: just like immersed in fear?

01:44:50: I think

01:44:55: a lot of purpose in the world,

01:44:57: for a lot of people,

01:45:00: purpose comes with serving,

01:45:03: serving others and

01:45:05: having less of an ego, right?

01:45:08: Less of an ego means not me, me, me,

01:45:10: take this mentality, give this mentality.

01:45:13: And I just felt like I could really do

01:45:16: that with the coaching,

01:45:17: like give to people and especially

01:45:19: because I experienced it myself.

01:45:21: I know what it means to be numb

01:45:24: and to not feel

01:45:25: anything and to be frustrated

01:45:26: because I don't know

01:45:27: how to get out of this.

01:45:29: And then switching to the other side

01:45:32: and seeing like how

01:45:33: much love there is when,

01:45:36: but I needed to open my heart first

01:45:38: to let other people in.

01:45:40: Also now with the relationship,

01:45:41: I believe you can only love other people

01:45:43: as much as you love yourself.

01:45:45: And I want to give this to other men too

01:45:49: and then also to other women

01:45:51: because I hear all

01:45:53: the women talking about

01:45:55: there's so many toxic men

01:45:56: and like they don't know

01:45:58: what to do and I for

01:45:59: sure hurt women in the past

01:46:01: because I was too ashamed of talking

01:46:02: about certain things

01:46:03: to checking in maybe for boundaries

01:46:06: or for their needs and wants.

01:46:08: And I don't want to be that guy

01:46:12: who's too afraid and then hurting people.

01:46:16: And I think the world needs

01:46:18: more healthy masculine men.

01:46:23: Yeah, that comes to the question of like,

01:46:27: what can of men like

01:46:29: eventually want to become

01:46:31: or like you do think yourself

01:46:32: published like the ideal state.

01:46:37: I think the ideal state,

01:46:40: what I want to teach

01:46:41: every man and every boy

01:46:43: even when they're growing up

01:46:45: is that they're okay as they are,

01:46:49: that they have this

01:46:49: inherent sense of self-worth,

01:46:52: that they have

01:46:54: self-confidence in themselves

01:46:56: and that they have these

01:46:58: skills to be assertive,

01:47:01: you know, to be

01:47:01: masculine and to take action

01:47:03: and to fear the fear,

01:47:04: but going through it

01:47:05: and to have a plan and do it

01:47:06: and have all these

01:47:07: like, kind of like the head,

01:47:09: the logical part, which I call the

01:47:10: masculine energy part,

01:47:12: then also combine that in a whole package

01:47:15: of like going in the feminine energy,

01:47:18: meaning like being more

01:47:19: connected with the heart,

01:47:20: means like feeling more,

01:47:22: knowing what they're feeling,

01:47:23: naming these emotions,

01:47:25: being able to trust and let go

01:47:27: and being not so reactive.

01:47:30: And yeah, it's really the combination

01:47:34: of these two energies, or

01:47:36: if you don't want to frame it

01:47:39: so spiritually, like

01:47:40: the head and the heart,

01:47:41: which I think right

01:47:43: now is like too much head

01:47:44: and not enough heart.

01:47:46: And the combination of

01:47:47: this is what I would wish

01:47:48: every man in the world could

01:47:50: learn to, like as a skillset.

01:47:53: Yeah, it's not like

01:47:54: always looking at masculine

01:47:57: and feminine power as

01:47:58: two opposite extremes,

01:48:01: but like to combine

01:48:01: them and bridge of balance.

01:48:04: Kids they're like in and young,

01:48:07: it's like the

01:48:07: masculine and feminine force.

01:48:11: Like either you are like

01:48:13: a female or like a male,

01:48:15: like I guess we all need that.

01:48:17: Kids, we need our mind,

01:48:18: we also need our body.

01:48:20: We need them to be in

01:48:22: balance all the time.

01:48:24: And can I add one thing about the,

01:48:26: because I'm talking about energies

01:48:28: and I know it's like a

01:48:28: very specific vocabulary

01:48:30: which I didn't like in my twenties,

01:48:32: I was like kind of like put off

01:48:33: about this like spiritual talk.

01:48:35: So I want to add that when I talk about

01:48:39: masculine, feminine energy, it's, I mean,

01:48:42: everybody knows the experience of like,

01:48:46: you know, this is why I

01:48:46: say also head or heart,

01:48:48: kind of like being connected to these two

01:48:51: because that's more

01:48:51: graspable for most people.

01:48:54: And what I'm not meaning with that is

01:48:58: stereo or gender typical traits, right?

01:49:03: Everyone has both energies within us.

01:49:06: It's not that I want women to always,

01:49:09: they do not have a

01:49:10: saying in a relationship,

01:49:12: for example, the man takes the decision

01:49:14: or something like that, right?

01:49:15: That's not what I want.

01:49:16: I want for both, right?

01:49:18: To one's needs boundaries.

01:49:20: They say it again, like both partners

01:49:21: can express these on eye level, right?

01:49:24: But then there's also the experience

01:49:27: for me as a man, like I can only share

01:49:30: from my experience and what I heard

01:49:31: from other women, right?

01:49:32: I only have the masculine experience,

01:49:34: but I, when I started to

01:49:36: question my sexual shame

01:49:38: and the fear of

01:49:38: intimacy, and I asked myself,

01:49:41: what do I miss from sexuality?

01:49:44: And I came to the

01:49:45: conclusion that I would like to be,

01:49:48: and I'm craving that feeling of like

01:49:50: being a masculine man,

01:49:52: like being a little bit of

01:49:53: dominant in the bathroom.

01:49:54: I was too afraid to do that.

01:49:57: And I hear from a lot of

01:49:59: women that they really enjoy

01:50:03: with a trusted

01:50:03: partner to let go of control

01:50:06: and to really find

01:50:07: someone they can trust fully.

01:50:09: And I think this, for me personally,

01:50:12: is just a dynamic, which I think,

01:50:14: holy divine or

01:50:15: whatever, I'm not baptized,

01:50:17: but something, it's just per design,

01:50:19: it clicks together

01:50:20: like yin and yang, right?

01:50:22: It's just made, we're

01:50:23: made for each other.

01:50:24: And I think we don't

01:50:25: see that enough anymore.

01:50:26: It's really like men against women,

01:50:28: especially in the West, like, you know?

01:50:31: So, yeah.

01:50:32: Yeah, I found your

01:50:33: story particularly touching

01:50:36: and fascinating is that

01:50:38: like, I feel like right now,

01:50:40: we're in a society

01:50:41: where we put too much stress

01:50:44: on the masculine power,

01:50:46: both to male and female,

01:50:49: even as like Asian

01:50:50: female, I can feel that like,

01:50:53: I need to be more

01:50:55: assertive to get what I want.

01:50:58: Even if most of the

01:50:59: time, that's not something

01:51:02: I'm used to or comfortable with.

01:51:05: But like, I felt like

01:51:07: I need to turn myself

01:51:08: into a person like a guy.

01:51:12: Yeah.

01:51:13: So, especially like at workplace.

01:51:17: Yeah.

01:51:17: Yeah, if you want to like be promoted,

01:51:21: if you want to lead the

01:51:22: team, you need to show them

01:51:24: like you have the masculine power in you.

01:51:27: Yeah.

01:51:28: Yeah, but like, it's kind of interesting,

01:51:31: always like the society,

01:51:34: like in a relationship,

01:51:36: like most girls, we still want to,

01:51:39: especially Asians I would say,

01:51:41: still want the men's to lead.

01:51:43: Yeah.

01:51:44: Yeah, that's my question is like,

01:51:46: why would you, why

01:51:47: like the society made you

01:51:49: feel that like guys should

01:51:51: be the one to approach women

01:51:53: in the first place, right?

01:51:55: It's like there's

01:51:56: girls who are kind of like,

01:51:58: they had a crush on you,

01:51:59: they should be the one to

01:52:00: approach you as well, right?

01:52:01: You shouldn't be the only

01:52:03: one without the pressure.

01:52:06: So, I questioned that a lot.

01:52:10: And I think this is

01:52:11: always the question between

01:52:15: how much percentage of this behavior

01:52:18: is social, societal, I

01:52:22: think that's the word,

01:52:24: societal behavior, sociology, right?

01:52:27: And how much of that is biology, right?

01:52:31: And I read these

01:52:32: books, like the female brain

01:52:35: and the male brain was really interesting

01:52:37: where they were

01:52:38: talking about, for example,

01:52:40: child's play behavior in monkeys,

01:52:45: specific, I don't remember which ones,

01:52:48: but they were very close to humans,

01:52:50: but obviously not societal.

01:52:53: Yeah.

01:52:54: So, we can make a lot of like assumptions

01:52:57: about that this is from biology.

01:52:59: And what one thing that happened was that

01:53:02: they gave them different

01:53:03: like weapons and dolls to play,

01:53:05: which is a very typical thing for like

01:53:07: men and women, right?

01:53:08: Or boys and girls.

01:53:09: So, the girls actually

01:53:12: played 50-50 with the toys.

01:53:15: So, they played with the

01:53:17: weapons and also with the dolls.

01:53:19: And the boys though played

01:53:20: nearly solely with the weapons.

01:53:24: If they played with a

01:53:24: doll, they used it as a weapon.

01:53:26: So, that led to the assumption that maybe

01:53:30: like men are like hardwired for this

01:53:32: rough and tumble play

01:53:34: to just learn this

01:53:36: behavior when they grew up

01:53:37: because that was how,

01:53:38: yeah, we used to survive

01:53:42: and it's still hardwired within us.

01:53:44: There's like other

01:53:45: behaviors like young women,

01:53:48: like really like babies,

01:53:50: you know, girls, baby girls.

01:53:52: They, apparently mothers say

01:53:55: that they have way more often

01:53:57: this experience where

01:53:58: the girl eye gazes with her

01:54:01: and like reads her emotions in the face

01:54:03: very strongly all the time.

01:54:05: It's just like you're like,

01:54:06: Boys are like super like

01:54:07: distracted and just like,

01:54:09: you know, they don't

01:54:10: care about the faces,

01:54:11: which then leads to this, okay,

01:54:13: like maybe girls are hardwired

01:54:14: to start reading these emotions.

01:54:16: That's why, of course, when

01:54:17: they practice it from early on,

01:54:19: they are better and like

01:54:20: reading the room stuff like that.

01:54:21: Whereas boys are maybe

01:54:22: better with like their hands

01:54:25: and handcraft or something like that.

01:54:26: That's not true,

01:54:28: obviously, if you practice later on,

01:54:30: but just that there's a

01:54:31: tendency in biology for that.

01:54:34: So, I think when it comes to

01:54:37: the question of approaching

01:54:39: that I think, I am not sure,

01:54:46: I think there's a huge,

01:54:48: there's an argument to make

01:54:49: that it's a lot of biology

01:54:51: where women just feel

01:54:52: better, more safe, more secure.

01:54:55: I don't know when they get approached.

01:55:00: Yeah, but ultimately,

01:55:01: I don't know, right?

01:55:03: I just know I feel

01:55:04: good when I approach now.

01:55:06: It doesn't feel that stress anymore.

01:55:07: I feel good.

01:55:09: And we even see it in

01:55:11: behavior like, for example,

01:55:14: porn users are way more men, right?

01:55:16: It's way more than approaching,

01:55:17: like researching the sexuality.

01:55:19: Whereas I heard the sentence once,

01:55:21: not everybody agrees, but

01:55:22: like social media for women

01:55:25: is what is porn for men.

01:55:27: So like posting bikini

01:55:30: photos and getting likes

01:55:31: and getting the stop and

01:55:32: rush of getting attention,

01:55:35: which is basically the opposite of,

01:55:38: kind of like porn is like this,

01:55:39: oh, I'm, click on this

01:55:41: video, I get this experience.

01:55:42: It's like an artificial,

01:55:43: I'm reaching out and

01:55:44: get a sexual experience.

01:55:45: What basically is like,

01:55:47: you know, approaching a girl,

01:55:48: but like she can't say

01:55:50: no because it's a video.

01:55:51: And then on social media, it's like,

01:55:53: oh, I'm putting myself in the market

01:55:54: and I get a dopamine

01:55:55: rush from all the likes

01:55:57: and it's more of a women

01:55:58: behavior than what men are doing.

01:56:02: So yeah, there's all these things

01:56:04: I'm not a hundred

01:56:05: percent sure how, you know,

01:56:07: it's connected, but I think there's a way

01:56:14: where men and women can work together.

01:56:16: And that it's kind of like hard for me,

01:56:19: I believe that there's a good reason

01:56:21: to make like it's biology a lot.

01:56:23: And I believe in, I think the

01:56:25: men should approach actually.

01:56:27: Yeah, I feel like there's a lot of,

01:56:31: of that was impacted by culture as well.

01:56:35: Cause my, actually

01:56:36: before hearing your story

01:56:38: and sharing my thoughts about like,

01:56:42: like the similar situation is that like,

01:56:45: if a guy does not

01:56:47: approach me or ask me out,

01:56:50: that means he's not interested in me.

01:56:54: Yeah, or like if I go

01:56:55: out on a date with a guy

01:56:58: and he doesn't have an

01:57:00: opinion on everything,

01:57:01: that means he's not

01:57:02: interested at all either.

01:57:05: Yeah, yeah.

01:57:06: Only when I heard your

01:57:08: stories and I realized,

01:57:09: oh, it might not be the case.

01:57:11: They might just be like too nice.

01:57:15: Yeah, yeah.

01:57:16: That makes me like, yeah.

01:57:20: Wonder the like, do you

01:57:22: see like a more ideal way

01:57:25: where like, like your

01:57:27: cell, like so masculine power

01:57:29: and feminine power can

01:57:30: be combined and together

01:57:35: for both men and women

01:57:37: to work together better.

01:57:40: Are you talking about relationships or?

01:57:42: Or any other.

01:57:46: So how we can work better

01:57:47: together as a team basically.

01:57:50: I think it's really

01:57:52: hard in the beginning to,

01:57:54: it depends on who you talk to.

01:57:56: I mean, here in Bali,

01:57:57: we have a lot of like

01:57:57: more spiritual people

01:57:59: and more people who are more connected

01:58:00: with their emotions, their feelings.

01:58:03: And the same as I started to feel,

01:58:04: I really wanna be more dominant

01:58:07: or wanna be able to be more dominant.

01:58:09: And I feel like that's

01:58:10: a blockage within me.

01:58:12: I wanna be able to be more dominant

01:58:13: in the bedroom, for example.

01:58:17: I feel like that same

01:58:20: behavior is also true for women,

01:58:22: where they say, I wanna surrender more.

01:58:25: And I really, so it

01:58:26: starts with the realization

01:58:28: that it's really

01:58:29: something I'm craving from within.

01:58:32: But that is very hard to crave.

01:58:35: Maybe when there's like

01:58:36: layers of layers of layers

01:58:37: of like specific

01:58:39: limiting beliefs about that.

01:58:42: For example, a lot of

01:58:43: women have, as you said,

01:58:45: grow up in a very masculine world, right?

01:58:48: They have to go to also to the job market

01:58:50: and then apply and it's

01:58:51: like very much a strategy

01:58:53: and like logic and head and

01:58:54: like you were coding, right?

01:58:56: So it's like a very logical,

01:58:58: not emotion connected thing.

01:59:00: So then for a lot of women,

01:59:03: it can happen that when they go from work

01:59:07: to a romantic relationship,

01:59:08: they try the same strategy.

01:59:10: And suddenly it doesn't work

01:59:12: because she's not understanding that

01:59:16: if she comes in with

01:59:17: the same energy of like,

01:59:19: okay, I'm planning

01:59:20: this, I'm planning that

01:59:21: and he's doing the same thing.

01:59:22: It's like two people

01:59:23: trying to dance with each other

01:59:25: and both trying to

01:59:26: lead and it's gonna clash.

01:59:28: So being aware of like,

01:59:32: okay, what do we actually want inside?

01:59:34: And are there fears which are blocking me

01:59:35: from wanting to do that?

01:59:37: So for example, for women

01:59:39: that could be something like,

01:59:43: do I feel comfortable

01:59:44: to let go of control?

01:59:47: Or can I trust,

01:59:50: can I trust men?

01:59:51: It's a big one also

01:59:52: because there's so much shit

01:59:53: about like men are not trustworthy.

01:59:55: Yes, yeah, yeah.

01:59:57: So trusting the

01:59:58: masculine just in general,

02:00:00: not even one specific man,

02:00:01: but like what is your relationship

02:00:03: with the masculine as a whole?

02:00:05: Like are you always like, I don't know,

02:00:07: like every, it doesn't

02:00:08: matter if it's my friends,

02:00:09: some men I trust more,

02:00:11: but in general I have like,

02:00:12: I'm very skeptical towards them.

02:00:15: How do you, then you don't

02:00:16: open your own heart probably,

02:00:17: how do you expect to build

02:00:18: a loving relationship then?

02:00:21: So asking these patterns about yourself

02:00:24: and then the same as me, right?

02:00:25: Seeing like, okay, how

02:00:26: do, which one's serving me

02:00:29: and which ones are maybe sabotaging me

02:00:32: and talking to others

02:00:33: about their experience, right?

02:00:35: Not trying to figure it out by yourself

02:00:37: and yeah, finding the

02:00:39: right environment to grow in

02:00:43: because it's scary to maybe

02:00:45: go with control also is

02:00:46: the same as like maybe

02:00:48: scary to take control

02:00:49: the first time, yeah.

02:00:52: Last question, like

02:00:53: how do you see yourself

02:00:55: right now in Bali being a nice guy coach

02:00:58: compared to like the guy who was afraid

02:01:03: of asking girls out back in Germany?

02:01:08: Yeah, it's crazy.

02:01:10: I'm feeling super self-confident.

02:01:16: I'm feeling a lot of

02:01:19: love, a lot of excitement,

02:01:23: a lot of joy and don't get me wrong,

02:01:26: sometimes I have my lows, right?

02:01:29: Of course, we are moments.

02:01:31: Exactly, right?

02:01:31: Like sometimes I'm not

02:01:32: feeling a self-confident

02:01:33: and sometimes I'm not feeling as worthy

02:01:35: and sometimes I have a

02:01:35: lot of stress, right?

02:01:37: But it doesn't last as

02:01:39: long and it's not like years

02:01:41: like suffering but it's like, you know,

02:01:43: I realize it and

02:01:44: allow it there to be there

02:01:46: like maybe a winter season, you know,

02:01:48: and then the better season comes again

02:01:50: and I know what I need to do to recharge,

02:01:52: to go to my men's circle, for example,

02:01:54: is one thing, to go

02:01:55: nature, to talk to others.

02:01:57: So yeah, to go on

02:01:58: events where other people

02:01:59: talk to each other and that helps me

02:02:01: to feel very connected to myself

02:02:02: and to allow my feelings to be there.

02:02:06: It doesn't matter if

02:02:06: it's comfortable feelings

02:02:07: like joy, excitement, or it's

02:02:10: uncomfortable emotions

02:02:12: like sadness and anger.

02:02:15: Wow, that's amazing.

02:02:17: What would you say to the nice guys

02:02:19: who is listening to this right now?

02:02:23: Like one piece of advice?

02:02:26: I think my most nice

02:02:30: guy is feeling very lonely

02:02:31: and I would tell them

02:02:36: that they're not alone,

02:02:38: that they probably have a lot of shame

02:02:41: even though they don't know it

02:02:42: and that shame can survive in the light

02:02:47: and you have to start

02:02:48: talking about the things

02:02:49: you're ashamed about and

02:02:52: that's how you get rid of it

02:02:54: and I'm there for them.

02:02:56: Like they can join me in my men's group

02:02:59: or in a local men's group in person.

02:03:02: There's like many ways to

02:03:03: first connect with other people

02:03:06: and yeah, to just talk

02:03:07: about your experience

02:03:08: maybe the first time ever, being witness,

02:03:10: being listened to, sharing some things

02:03:13: you maybe have never shared in your life

02:03:14: and I think this is the first step

02:03:17: for a really great transformation.

02:03:20: Wow, you're saying that

02:03:22: like out loud very gently

02:03:24: that I can feel like

02:03:25: such, you're also very strong.

02:03:29: By saying that and by

02:03:30: sharing all your stories

02:03:32: in front of the camera, thank you.

02:03:34: Thank you so much.

02:03:35: Thank you.